2011 NBA Playoffs thread...

[Unchained]

Nash has sent Kobe home crying twice, he'll be in the same hall of fame as Kobe btw, better offensive player anyway. Not all teams have a hollywood fanbase that fuels going out and buying a ring. Congrats on the past few rings though, managing to beat a beat up Celtics and a mediocre Magic team that shot their way to the finals, can't forget those early 2000 teams either getting a little push from the stripes against the Kings. Yes they'll "reload", if you mean buying another center to replace the great Pau "softer than Rosannes son" Gasol and Andrew "I think I just tore/broke/fractured my...." Bynum.

soooo much Hatorade,but then again I can see why. Just count the rings man. You'll argue anything,but this isn't even something that can be debated. Nash a better offensive player than Kobe? Are you serious? That's as funny as I have ever heard right there. Kobe currently stands as the 6th all time NBA scoring leader while Nash isn't even in the top 30. Don't get me wrong,I have mad respect for Nash,but he is is no Kobe. Bryant is a much more consistent offensive threat. Nash just has spells where he gets hot.

[R13]

Who leads in career FG %? Who leads in 3pt%? Who leads in FT%? Who leads in APG and total assists? Nash>Kobe, Nash>Kobe, Nash>Kobe, Nash>Kobe. He's a much better all around shooter in every way, and it's not even close in assists and that's huge (1 assist is at least 2 points, 1 point i just one point always). He's a better play maker and shooter, Kobe is a better scorer and shoots tons more - thus getting the distance berween total points between the two. Nash shoots less because he's a much better passer/play maker and doesn't have to shoot .

Nash has spells? lmao He's one of the best shooters in NBA history, if not the best all-around shooter, no one in NBA history has been a member of the 50, 40, 90 club - (hell he is about a percentage point away from averaging it for his career). Yeah, spells huh? Guess his whole career has been a spell then. Again you prove your lack of knowledge of basketball. People see Kobe's scoring abilities(which are amazing for more of his career) and assume he's the best shoot and what not, just means he shoots a lot and is good at scoring which includes many thing(i.e. getting to the rim, free-throw line etc etc). Kobe is the better all around player, as in scorer, rebounding, steals etc...but for offensive play maker? Nash all day, every day.

[Biggin]

You said better offensive player, not playmaker.

And Kobe is an exponentially better offensive player.

[R13]

He's both. Nash leads Kobe in a number of offensive statistics, hell a good chunk of Kobe's points come from going to line. He's a better scorer, not a question, one of the best in the league history and definitely a better all-around player...doesn't translate to best offensive player or playmaker. Offensive stats as in shooting and assists, Nash owns Kobe and it's not even close really. As I said, Kobe is better all-around player without a doubt, never would argue that...just because he is one of the best all-around players, doesn't mean he's the top player in every category, just means he's really good in about every one of them. There are plenty players better offensively or defensively better than him, but few better all-around than him.

Mavs lead by 24 going into the 4th, hell the bench is pretty much routing the Lakers themselves, Terry has almost done that alone.

[R13]

How embarrassing, Lakers can't lose with a little class. Odom gets tossed for his hit on Dirk, then Bynum does one of the dirtiest moves I've seen and takes Berea down...I hope they do some kind of suspension that carries over to the first few games of next season for that. Can't handle getting taken behind the shed and have to be this cheap.

[7teen]

Who leads in career FG %? Who leads in 3pt%? Who leads in FT%? Who leads in APG and total assists? Nash>Kobe, Nash>Kobe, Nash>Kobe, Nash>Kobe. He's a much better all around shooter in every way, and it's not even close in assists and that's huge (1 assist is at least 2 points, 1 point i just one point always). He's a better play maker and shooter, Kobe is a better scorer and shoots tons more - thus getting the distance berween total points between the two. Nash shoots less because he's a much better passer/play maker and doesn't have to shoot .

With that logic, I suppose you will now inform us as to why John Stockton was better than Michael Jordan...

[Biggin]

He's both. Nash leads Kobe in a number of offensive statistics, hell a good chunk of Kobe's points come from going to line. He's a better scorer, not a question, one of the best in the league history and definitely a better all-around player...doesn't translate to best offensive player or playmaker. Offensive stats as in shooting and assists, Nash owns Kobe and it's not even close really. As I said, Kobe is better all-around player without a doubt, never would argue that...just because he is one of the best all-around players, doesn't mean he's the top player in every category, just means he's really good in about every one of them. There are plenty players better offensively or defensively better than him, but few better all-around than him.

Mavs lead by 24 going into the 4th, hell the bench is pretty much routing the Lakers themselves, Terry has almost done that alone.

Kobe Bryant:
45% FG, 1.3 3PM, 6.4 FTM/G, 84% FT, 1.2 ORPG, 4.7 APG, 2.9 TPG, 25.3 PPG

Steve Nash:
49% FG, 1.4 3PM, 2.6 FTM/G, 90% FT, .5 ORPG, 8.5 APG, 2.8 TPG, 14.6 PPG

There is no possible way to say Nash is a better offensive player than KOBE BRYANT. Thats just ridiculous.
I hate the Lakers more than anyone, but to say that Nash is a better offensive player is downright laughable dude.
Nash shoots a higher %, Kobe makes more FTs, Kobe gets more offensive boards, Nash gets more assists, and Kobe averages almost double Nash's PPG.

Nash is responsible for 31.6 points per game (assists + points)
Kobe is responsible for 34.7 points per game.

Nash has two MVP awards (no matter how undeserving), Kobe has one.
Kobe is a two time Finals MVP

Let's go to some advanced metrics:
Offensive win shares (or, in laments terms, the better offensive player):
Steve Nash: 104.7
Kobe Bryant: 111.3

Win shares:
Steve Nash: 119.5
Kobe Bryant: 156.3

WS per 48 minutes:
Steve Nash: .168
Kobe Bryant: .187

NBA ELO rating:
Steve Nash: 28th overall, 8th active
Kobe Bryant: 19th overall, 4th active

In terms of pure offense, the better shooter is Nash. But the better all around offensive threat is Kobe, and its not close. Kobe can score in many more ways than Nash can. Kobe can shoot, very well, but he can drive in the lane and create and get to the free throw line with better consistency.

[Biggin]

and Kobe shoots much more, yet he only shoots 4% lower from the field than Nash.

[1inStripes]

No one would have beaten the Mavs the way they shot it from outside today. Just wasn't in the cards for the Lakers, and all the extra games the last 3 years has caught up to them.

[CoeburnCane]

I will say this--it's time to rebuild and cut the age/fat/complacency from this squad. They look old and unmotivated. I love Derek Fisher, but it's time for him to retire or finish his career out from the bench and let a younger PG take over. He's 36 trying to stop a ton of PG's in their mid to late 20's all through the league. It's not working anymore. Great career as a Laker, but it's time to go in another direction.

The Ron Artest experiment needs to end. I won't expound on that much more--just cut your losses there and find a guy who can consistently give you solid minutes--not just flashes of hustle and scoring like Artest.

Odom did not produce well at all in the playoffs like he normally does, so I'd say his clock has reached midnight. That, combined with the idiocy we saw in game 4--send him packing. Get some picks out of him if you can. Let him focus on his reality tv stardom with the ugliest Kardashian.

Andrew Bynum--see you later. Injured too much, and needs far to many touches to be effective. He's shown flashes of dominance, but can fall asleep way too much. He's only 23, so maybe someone else can take him on and turn him around. The Lakers have a bargaining chip in Bynum to get quite a few picks or some hungry mid-range players that are ready to step up. His stock is hurt by his rough play in game 4 as well (like Odom), but his upside is so much higher b/c of his youth.

Pau Gasol is another guy that could move on. I wouldn't want him to, because when he does decide to play tough and dominate, he is one of the best big men in the game. But, there seems to be something missing w/him during these playoffs. Could be personal problems or him and Kobe/Phil weren't on the same page...who knows. The Lakers will only trade either him or Bynum--it won't be both, and they'll only do it for the right deal.

I don't know who Phil Jackson's heir apparent will be, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is there as a "special assistant". I wouldn't mind seeing him take the reins, risky due to his lack of HC experience, but he's one of the best Lakers of all time and he's right there--he has to be an option. Brian Shaw isn't too far removed from being an NBA player, but younger coaches that are ex-players (see: Monty Williams) can work out well. No matter who it is--it will have to be someone who can respect Kobe and whom Kobe respects, otherwise it won't work. The Lakers job is a coveted job, so lots of guys will start expressing interest soon.

The smart move for Kupchak is to tear down and rebuild--struggle for 3-5 seasons and make smart free-agency moves in the interim to clear up cap room. Time up some bigger/younger FA names (Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, John Wall, Tyreke Evans, etc) and sign them when you can. Sell them on rebuilding the Lakers and carrying on the championship legacy that Kobe's gonna leave behind in the next few years. Kobe's 32 now, and I don't see him playing much past 36-37, if that far.

Now--what will probably happen is that Kobe will push Kupchak to make some desperate moves to get him a championship caliber team rebuilt within 2 years. There will be an overlap between some big signings that are good but overpaid players, and decent younger players. That will hinder the Lakers winning a title for probably another decade b/c the roster will be hamstrung and top heavy w/very little depth--that is, unless they land another Kobe-esque top-level player somehow. Make no mistake though--I think we'll see a LOT of turnover on this roster in the offseason, save for Kobe.

My hat is off to Dallas. They look motivated and ready to go all the way. If their bench continues to produce as it has through the playoffs, and they shoot as well as they did against LA, the sky is the limit for them. I'm not a big Mark Cuban fan, but I would like to see guys like Terry, Kidd, Nowitzki, and Stojakovic get a title. All really good NBA players that deserve at least one title in their careers.